The Hicks Babies

In the mid-1940s, Dr. Thomas Jugarthy Hicks opened the Hicks Community Clinic in the small town of McCaysville, Georgia, mere steps from the Tennessee state line.  Within a decade, he was not only performing illegal abortions but selling newborns on the black market.  Some birth mothers knew they were placing a baby for adoption, some thought they had an abortion, and some were told their infants died.

The former Hicks Clinic as seen from the back alley today. Newborns were handed out a window to waiting adoptive parents.

 

At the other end of the transaction, adoptive parents drove to a window in the alley behind the clinic, shelled out $1,000 or more—big money for the time—and were handed a newborn.  The so-called “Hicks Babies” had falsified birth certificates, and Dr Hicks kept no records tying them to their biological families.  Many had no idea they were adopted until well into adulthood.

There was a tip-off, though.  No matter where they grew up—most often in the industrial cities of Ohio—their birth certificates said they were born in the Hicks Clinic in McCaysville, Georgia.

A falsified birth certificate from the Hicks Clinic. Used with permission of Bill Palmisano.  Both of his adoptive parents are deceased.

 

At least 200 babies had their identities stolen.  Now, they are using the power of DNA to reunite with their biological families.  I am honored to be part of the behind-the-scenes team of passionate and compassionate people who helped some of them in their journeys.

You can follow their life-changing stories in a three-night series, Taken at Birth, airing October 9th-11th, 2019, on TLC.

 

Additional Reading

Corinthios, Aurelie. 2019. New TLC Special Taken At Birth Dives into Shocking ‘Hicks Babies’ Black Market Adoption Scandal. People, accessed 17 September 2019.

Bragg, Rick. 1997. Town Secret Is Uncovered In Birth Quest. New York Times, accessed 17 September 2019.

Bruen, Matthew Steven. 2016. Babies For Sale: The Secret Adoptions That Haunt One Georgia Town. Narratively, accessed 17 September 2019.

Chang, Juju, Jasmine Brown, Geoff Martz and Lauren Effron. 2015. ‘Hicks Baby’ Adoptee Sold by Georgia Doctor 50 Years Ago Reunites With Birth Mother, Brother. ABC News, accessed 17 September 2019.

Table, Dave. 2017. Busted not for selling babies, but for the abortion clinic. Appalachian History, accessed 17 September 2019.

 

 

105 thoughts on “The Hicks Babies”

  1. i am interested in the hicks babies i supposely had a brother who died in the early 1950s i would like to know if he is still alive

      1. DNA geek,
        I just wanted to say I watch this show about a little girl. Her name is Alana ” honey boo boo” if you don’t know who she is you can google her. Anyways the family is from Georgia and they film there as well. The reason I am writing is this. The man that is Dr.Hicks first stolen, one of the twins. Well he and Alanna’s birth father very similar. You can see for yourself google him. Thank you

      2. I had a brother who was given up for adoption by his mother in Tennessee. It would’ve been 1964.
        I am happy to offer a dna sample if possible.

        1. I am helping a relative looking for his birth parents or siblings. He was born in April 1964 Sumner County TN from what he knows.

    1. I am watching the TV documentary on Dr. Hicks and do not believe he should be so vilified. Were it not for him encouraging these women to have their babies, these children would have never been given a chance at life. $1000 was not a tremendous amount of money when you think about the birth mothers’ room and board for one month (they had no money, they paid nothing) prior to the birth, plus 24 hr a day Nursing care. Just keeping an RN on duty, even in the 1950’s -‘60’s, was a big expense. He deserved to be paid for his time and services as well – after all, this was time he could have spent seeing other patients, and medical equipment and supplies are not cheap. His family did not live like they had money – in fact most of his money appeared to be put right back into the town of McKaysville – into businesses which kept folks employed and kept the town thriving. Remember that these women had no where else to go, no one to turn to. They wanted to be rid of their babies and were desperate. He gave them good care. And he gave the babies to equally desperate childless parents. What he did was completely illegal, but was it less moral than aborting these babies? He took HUGE risks for essentially very little in return, in fact he did lose his medical license in 1964 for performing an abortion. I believe that he provided a valuable service, giving women an alternative, giving a baby a chance at life, giving a couple a chance to be parents. He did not have any choice but to lie on the birth certificates. All in all, I cannot condemn him.

      1. What Dr Hicks did was illegal. He told women their babies had died when they hadn’t. He sold those babies for a profit. One thousand dollars in 1955 would be nearly $10,000 today. And he was more than happy to perform abortions.

      2. So telling a mother that her baby died at birth while he sold it out his back door was fine with you? Not a mother who wanted to give her baby up for adoption, but a mother who trusted her doctor? If you find ANYTHING humane or OKAY about that then God so help you! It sickens me to see any one make what he did look OKAY! I can promise you this, if there’s a hell, he is in the front row seat! These folks deserve to know where they came from!

        1. Apparently these women were seeking abortions, not babies. Instead of killing the children he delivered live infants, told the “mothers” their babies were dead, and gave the babies away to parents who wanted them.
          This is a story of a doctor who saved lives??
          This is a different story than what I expected!

        2. If they went there to have abortions and he told them what they wanted to hear, saved the lives of their babies and put them into the arms of loving parents, that makes him a hero in my eyes. You got a problem with that?

      3. I realize Dr. Hicks is not here to defend himself or answer questions, but I cannot imagine how you can defend him after what you heard. If he was truly compassionate and a good man he would not have lied to the mothers and told them they delivered a stillborn baby or that the baby died. That seems to be a repetitive theme amongst the living relatives. And then the consistent low birth weights are concerning. Why am I rehashing this. You saw it. You made your decision. My decision is there was something very wrong going on. It may have started with good intentions, but these “babies” deserve the truth and they deserve it now. Time is running out. I sincerely hope more can make connections before its too late.

        1. can you imagine waking up one day to find out accidently that you were adopted and come to find out through this show or other means that your wife is your sister or first cousin? And you’ve had children with them??? What he was doing in a lot of cases is absolutely wrong because of stuff like this.

        2. Ray, you bring up an excellent reason why everyone has the right to know who their biological family is.

      4. This man told women that their babies had died or were stillborn. What part of that is okay? How many women died themselves never knowing that they had a child or children out there and how many children, now adults, will never know their biological parents because it’s just too late and most of them have passed? These weren’t all women seeking abortions, a number of these women were seeking medical care for themselves and their unborn babies only to be robbed of that precious life. You’re as crazy as he was if you think he should even get a pat on the back for his time and services. He was a monster, a murderer, and a kidnapper, but he wasn’t a good man doing a good thing for helpless women.

      5. What people don’t realize is Doc Hicks started his practice in Tennessee. He delivered many babies in Tennessee before they ran him out of the state. He then relocated just across the line in McCaysville Georgia. One of those babies he delivered in Tennessee was my oldest brother who was supposedly still born. Mama named my brother Von Gordon. His name would have been Von Gordon Prince. Mama never got over this. She said she heard her baby cry then Doc Hicks told her he was still born. Mama told me they ran the doctor out of Tennessee after that because he was killing so many babies. I submitted my DNA in hopes that I might find my brother or some of his family.

        1. My heart aches for your mother and your whole family. I hope your brother decides to test someday.

      6. What he provided were lies to young mothers and fathers who wanted their babies ! I know this first hand because of how it deeply hurt my mother for many, many years! You should be ashamed of yourself because you have no idea of the pain he caused many families!

      7. Somehow I missed this Documentary the first time it aired. I did see it just yesterday. Personally I hope that Dr Hicks is burning in hell! As far as they know the first baby that was adopted out was a twin. The “good” Dr told the mother they were still born. He “buried” them for her (such a nice guy) and gave her a birth certificate stating they were stillborn. One twin has not been found yet but the one that was found was adopted into a horrible family and had a really sad childhood. No one with half a brain can even think that is “good”. Furthermore, over 200 babies! We will never know the hell they have suffered. A sick, twisted & greedy man.

      8. He also delivered the babies early, between 31 & 34 wks causing them to have low birthweight and health issues. These babies were born between 3.5 and 4.75 lbs….. very unfavorable!! He was protecting himself & looking out for his own financial interest!!! Shameful + Sinful + Criminal + Evil!!

        1. I Just don’t understand how anyone could possibly think what he did was right or just or in any way good at all!! That’s a totally twisted way of thinking!!!

      9. Oh my gosh Barbara, he also delivered the babies early, like induced at between 31 & 34 wks causing them to have low birthweight, failure to thrive and other health issues. These babies were born between weighing only 3.5 and 4.75 lbs….. ALL very unfavorable conditions!!!! They weren’t all there for abortions!! Otherwise he wouldn’t have needed to lie about them being stillborn. HE WAS A HORRIBLE MAN, JUST HORRIBLE!!! He was protecting himself due to his many illegitimacies & looking out for his own financial interest!!!
        Shameful + Sinful + Criminal + Evil!!

        I Just don’t understand how anyone could possibly think what he did was right or just or in any way good at all!! I’m sorry but that’s a totally twisted way of thinking in my view!!

      10. Then you missed the entirety of the story. He induced labor and delivered low birth weight babies that were in danger of dying. It is suspected that many of them did and there is rumor that perhaps he disposed of those little bodies in the river. Not sure how you can justify robbing mothers of their babies (some were told the babies died) or destroying the records so those that wanted to find their biological parents had no way of doing so. What he did has no merit. I understand the concept of not being able to conceive and being grateful to receive a child but that was not a win/win situation by any stretch of the imagination.

      11. Clearly, you have never lost a child. So many of the women were told their babies had died. I have had two of my children die. If you haven’t been there, you cannot possibly imagine what that is like. For him to lie to these women is unforgivable. Shame on him and all those who covered for him and his horrific lies.

      12. ALL OF THOSE CHILDREN WERE MESSED UP FROM THIS. THE ONE FAMILY HAD TWIN BOYS AND THE MAN WAS IN A FAMILY THAT HATED HIM HIS ENTIRE LIFE. HIS BIO FAMILY DIDNT FIND OUT ABT HIM UNTIL 60 YEARS LATER AND TOO LATE BECAUAE HIS MOTHER WAS I ALREADY DEAD. THIS POOR WOMAN THOUGHT HER TWIN BOYS HAD DIED. AND IN ALL ACTUALITY HICKS LIED TO HER TO GET HER TWIN BOYS AND MADE OVER 2000 OFF OF HER PAIN.

      13. He was inducing them around 30 weeks handing out 4lb babies to people. In 2020 a 4lb baby as a very good chance of not making it even with amazing NICUs in today’s age. Could you imagine the survival rate back then for babies 3lb or 4lbs. I am a mother of a baby born in 2016 at 30 weeks 3lbs in an amazing NICU I couldn’t imagine if my son was born in his condition back then. I’m disgusted that someone would think that this is ok. If you fully watched the documentary you would know that almost all the babies were 4lbs at birth weight or even SMALLER and he was doing this to hurry along the money. Ignorance is a terrible thing smh!!!!

        1. And he was stealing babies telling mothers that they delivered a still born. Could you imagine carrying your baby a whole pregnancy having a nursery all set up and you go to the hospital deliver your baby and be lied to that your baby died smh I’m speechless. The pain these mothers felt I could never imagine and not to mention how many of these babies died from being delivered wayyyy too prematurely. During the documentary they interviewed a dr that runs a NICU and he said absolutely many of these babies died from there extremely low birth weight and the “adoptive parents ” would have had no choice but to just “discard” them. Absolutely horrifying!!!!!

        2. Some babies were that small but not all of them. The birth certificates I’ve seen were in the 6-7 lb range.

      14. Wow! That is not correct. Women came to give birth, and were told their babies were stillborn! They were not, and he sold those babies. Women came to have abortions and he told them it was a successful procedure, only to take that premature baby and sell it to someone. Just horrible! Evil does not begin to describe this man.
        Those few cases were a woman gave birth knowing she did not want the baby, and Dr. Hicks found someone wanting to adopt, are far and few between! I agree that in those cases he did the right thing, but everything else he did was just horrible!

      15. He induced birth prematurely to make money. So yes he should be vilified! Theres probably a lot of dead babies because of his practices. Yes he had a choice he just made the wrong one for greed!!

      16. So telling the one mother her twin boys were stillborn is acceptable to you. Hicks lied, blatantly, to some of these women, hell probably 90% of them. So that he could make money. So all of what you said is ridiculous. How would you feel if you found out a child your told was dead is actually alive… I wish Hicks was alive to stand trial for what he did, he had no right.

      17. Are you for real?? This man was worse than the plague! This man not only took away people’s family history, but ruined their future as well. Think about it, some of these folks could fall in love with a relative and not even know it. Not to mention the fact that some of these birth mothers thought their babies DIED! Do you know how that can mentally affect a woman? And, even though it was illegal, many women thought they were having an abortion. How can this man NOT be vilified?! Please!

      18. Are you nuts? That $1000. Is like $10,000. in today’s market he did make money, he also induced those women into early labor to push those babies out putting the babies and mothers in jeopardy(I wonder how many died). He lied to those women whether they wanted their children or not.

      19. That is crazy! He induced births, told mothers their babies died and sold them! There is living proof, with dna, of one man, who along with his twin brother, was reported dead and buried by Dr. Hicks. You don’t want to vilify him? He is monster!!

      20. So, what you are saying is, when my mom went to deliver my BROTHER and was told he was born dead, yet she has nightmares TO THIS DAY that she heard her baby cry for her. She did NOT go to him for an abortion, she went to deliver MY BROTHER. Now, my family has to wonder, is he out there? How the hell would YOU feel? Buying or selling A CHILD…THERE IS EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

    2. Try DNA ancestry.com…I found my biological father this way…best way to find out if you have family is through DNA

  2. Interesting. My Hicks line starts in New York in 1833. Moves to NE Ohio and then to Michigan from 1868 to this day. My dad moved us to New Mexico when I was in my early teens but I have a brother who stayed in Michigan. My YDNA indicates I am not Hicks. You gotta wonder if this was a routine operation throughout history.

  3. i am from polk county tenn we are trying to find if our brother danny is still alive we have learned 3 dead babies in my family it is interesting

    1. Janice, I am from Polk County Tennessee as well and Dr Hicks delivered my oldest brother before they ran him out of Tennessee. I would love to be able to find him or maybe some of his family. I know your heart aches.

      1. Has your family done any dna tests like 23andme or ancestry? If he is out there and looking he may have tried the dna route. I hope you guys can find what your looking for. Dr. Hicks is horrible. I personally think he is a sociopath and I wonder if he could have been a Serial Killer as well. We don’t know anything about the adults he has seen. On the documentary the officer in the second episode claimed he gave a relative of his a shot and she died 30min later. Her only health problem was asthma. I wondering how far the rabbit hole goes with him.

        1. I am by no means defending Dr Hicks’ black-market adoption practices, but it’s important to remember that, even today, people die from asthma attacks. It can be a serious disease.

  4. we are not in the dna data bases but i would be glad to give my dna to find out what happened just point me in the right direction i will be watching tlc hicks babies

    1. Dr Hicks didn’t keep records of the births and adoptions, so the only way to find your brother, if he’s still alive, would be if he decided to look for you using DNA. If he does, you’ll want to be in whichever database he decides to use. Since you can’t know which one in advance, your most cost-effective strategy is to test with AncestryDNA and 23andMe and then transfer the “raw data file” into the other databases for free.

      Test prices are here: https://thednageek.com/dna-tests/
      23andMe is on sale right now, so it’s a good time to buy. Their lower-priced test is fine for your purposes.

      Instructions for how to transfer the “raw data file” to MyHeritage and FTDNA are here: https://thednageek.com/how-to-transfer-your-ancestrydna-test-to-other-databases/

        1. Thank you. I may have a couple brothers out there. My oldest would have been born in Akron in 1960. The second would have been no later than 1962. My mom had two stillborn they told her. She never got over it.

  5. Should anyone believe or just want to be a part of the DNA registry for The Nick’s Babies..please visit us on our webpage (Hick’s Adoptees)

    Thank You
    Melinda, of the ‘Hick’s Babies’

  6. I have a missing, supposedly deceased infant sister, born in supposedly michigan in 1967, 1968 or 1969. My mother remarried in 1969 in GA, I cannot locate any information about her daughter except a clipping cutout from the obituaries in michigan, NO GRAVE, BIRTH OR DEATH RECORDS can be found, can you help, The connections of Georgia and Michigan and Ohio seemed odd, we desperately desire to locate her

    1. Do you know where she was born (which clinic or hospital)? If it was a black-market clinic, there probably aren’t any records of the transaction. If she’s still alive and knows she’s adopted, she may be looking for you using DNA. Have you taken a DNA test yourself? I recommend that you test with AncestryDNA and 23andMe, then consider transferring the raw data file into some of the other databases if you don’t have luck at the first two. 23andMe is on sale right now.
      https://thednageek.com/dna-tests

  7. My name is Judy Swafford Walker. I have been advised by a man named Bill Miller from Cleveland Ohio that I was a Hicks baby but cannot find out if this is true. He states that he chased the car down the road from where hicks’ office was to try and get me before they took off in 1954.

  8. Jane needs to get a DNA test and compare it to Doris Abernathy, the town historian. They look exactly alike. Same ears, chin/jaw line, nose, and eyes.

  9. I am wondering if any possible hicks babies that have not found relatives has DNA done? I have my ancestory DNA done and would love to try to match some names with my DNA relatives. I have a great sample of relatives going back many generations

    1. Many of the Hicks babies were able to do DNA testing as part of the TV show. I’m sure there are also many, many Hicks babies out there that have no idea they are Hicks babies. They may not even know they’re adopted.

  10. Why dig up a grave when dna could have given these people the answer if they were siblings? Aside from giving the adopted daughter her answer.

    1. To give Sallie an answer. To push the boundaries of DNA science. To have an unequivocal reference sample for any other Hicks children who want to know their origins.

  11. My Grandma has been gone several years now, but she told us numerous times that in 1952 when she gave birth to my aunt that she remembers having two babies and the nurse telling her she had a boy. Dr Hicks quickly hushed the nurse and gave my grandma something to make her sleep. She said the whole time she was having the babies that there was a very nice dressed lady sitting in the room across the hall from her. When she woke she only had one baby. When she ask Dr Hicks about it he told her it was the medication making her think that. She always thought she had a boy out there somewhere.

  12. There are always three sides to any story: One side, the other side, and the truth (which is usually somewhere in between). Dr. Hicks obviously cannot give his side of the story. What we have now is the mother’s side of the story. But let’s be honest, no one is going to admit that they willingly sold their baby. This was rural Appalachia in the 50s and 60s, a lot of poor families. And most of these women were likely unmarried, which was a huge no-no at the time. So for that reason, I think we’re putting too much faith in these womens’ stories. You’ve got poor, pregnant, unmarried women, who then need to come up with a story for their friends and/or families as to why there is no newborn …. saying the baby was stillborn could have been nothing more than a cover story for them. On another point, I’ve heard it said that Dr. Hicks disposed of aborted babies in the river. Yes, that’s a horrible thought. But what does anyone think was ‘normally’ done with illegally aborted babies during that time … I can tell you, they were likely disposed of in with the garbage. How is the river any worse, I ask you? And then today, with abortions being legal, aborted babies are having their body parts SOLD … what a repugnant thought. I do truly feel for the Hicks babies for not knowing; I know that must be hard. But honestly, my suggestion would be for them to live for today. They should at least be thankful that they weren’t aborted.

    1. I can attest to the fact that some of the mothers were married (yes, to the biological fathers) at the time their infants were sold.

  13. Thank you so much. I only wish Mama had lived long enough to know her baby is most likely alive. She grieved her the rest of her life for her first born son. She did tell me she heard her baby cry and Dr Hicks told her he was still born.

  14. You people have no idea how many states/commonwealths this Hicks was in., he was known in the mountains of Pa as Hickscock. Cock being laughed at each time someone ask his name. Babies came to the mountains with him and babies left the mountains with him. After I watched your show on TLC, I took a trip up to the mountains., looked the house that was HIckscock and made a big mistake when I asked some questions. I was warned about ever asking those questions again, this man said I know who you are, please let it alone. I’ve heard that many times in my life by a lot of people. Oh well for them, I was raised in those mountains and I’m not afraid of them. I will find out who my mother was and why my dad was killed. PS Ancestry DNA is a crook

    1. I used AncestryDNA to solve all of the Hicks cases I worked on. They’re an invaluable resource for parentage searches. I hope you’re able to solve your case soon.

  15. Before Doctor Hicks opened his practice in Georgia he was just across the state line in Polk County Tennessee in the 1930’s. That is when my older brother was born and my mother was told he was still born even though she told me she heard her baby cry. Mama said they ran him out of Tennessee not long after that because he was killing so many babies. Mama had seven more babies after that(I’m the youngest)she never stopped grieving for her oldest son. She named him Von Gordon. Such an evil man to cause such heart ache!

    1. I’ve heard the same story over and over, that the mother heard her baby cry but was told it was stillborn. I do hope your brother survived and is out there somewhere.

  16. Labor was induced at 31-34 weeks (based on the birth weight of the survivors). According to the neonatalogist interviewed in the show many other babies must have died. Babies born that early would need to remain in the hospital. We only know about the ones who survived.

    1. As I watched this documentary it made me think of the story my mother told many times…as her grandmother told her…she (my mother) was born in Oliver Springs TN.. (a little over two hours from McCaysville GA) A Dr Stone dilivered her and told her mother that she didn’t make it… meanwhile she’s lying on a cart covered up with a sheet outside the room when her grandmother realizes she’s there… picked her up blew into her mouth then spanked her bottom and she started crying. she weighed a little over 4lbs… I wonder if there’s any connection between those doctors…

        1. When I told my parents about this documentary.. My dad said “well back then they didn’t have the equipment to deal with infants like they to do today” my response was “oh they didn’t know to clear the air passage way and slap a baby on the bottom?”
          My mother was soooo lucky compared to all of the hudreds of babies Hicks Babies.

        2. Perhaps your dad was referring to the equipment used to save preemies. Dr Hicks induced some babies early, and they would have been put in incubators had then been born that early today.

  17. Barbara, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That evil man lied to my mother and stole my oldest brother and by the way, $1000 was alot of money in the 1930’s, 40’s and 50’$ in the Appalachian Mountains. My parents were young and married and wanted their first son! My mother grieved for her baby the rest if her life!

    1. What an awful tragedy. I’m so sorry for your family’s loss. Maybe he’s out there and will search for you.

  18. I did do a DNA test with no response. My brother was born in the middle 1930’s. I am the youngest of seven siblings. It may be that I never find my brother but maybe I could find his children. It is in God’s hands. You are right, Dr Hicks was an evil man. My Mama and Daddy were young parents and though they were very poor they both wanted their first born with all their heart!

    1. The Dr Hicks who ran the black-market adoptions had a son who became a dentist. That son adopted Sallie, who was featured in the show.

  19. Just watched the documentary. I have so many thoughts racing through my mind. Some on here commented that the bio moms were likely unwed and didn’t want the babies. First of all, it was a small town clinic and back then it was not unheard of for any woman in a small town to go to a clinic to deliver their baby so to say he’s some kind of hero for what he did is beyond disgusting. Use your brain, IF good old dr hicks was such a “good doctor” then why did he need to tell the women that their baby died?? If they were going to have an abortion like some people are saying then there would be absolutely no need to tell the mom’s that. How HEARTLESS can someone be then to tell a parent their child…THEIR CHILD died just so he could profit? There is absolutely NO defense for that.He treated these babies like they were nothing more than a puppy mill money making machine.

  20. You are absolutely correct in your assumption. My Mama and Daddy were very young yet very poor when this evil man told my Mama her first born son, my oldest brother was dead. My parents lived together for 62 years and went on to have seven more children but my Mama grieved the rest of her life for the son she lost!

  21. I cannot imagine being one of these babies. I can empathize because of some similarities, but I cannot fully understand. With that said, what we know, sounds evil, but that is based on times being much different. Our filters are much different than the ones from that period of time.

    I’m going to play a little devil’s advocate. I mean no disrespect towards anyone. What if, you are a scared young woman, 16 or 17 or even 19, pregnant in rural GA or TN, shame ridden as some would have felt, just wanting this to be taken care of. Now fast forward 50 years, memories are skewed, you feel differently now, maybe you wish things were different. We can tell ourselves stories, and they become our truths. I don’t know the truth, the people involved back THEN know. I don’t trust my own memories, let alone 50 year old memories.

    So no, I can’t completely vilify as I just don’t know. Can never know. That doesn’t mean that my heart doesn’t break for the pain that these people have gone through and continue to go through.

  22. Barbara, the very same thing happened to my Mother. He was her first born and she said she heard him cry yet Dr Hicks told her he was still born. She grieved for him her entire life! She did not go to him for an abortion or to give her baby away. She carried him to full term and went to Dr Hicks to deliver her baby! It was a horrible thing he did to my parents and the rest of us when he stole my oldest brother!

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